Cinelinx’s resident musicologist recently had the opportunity to speak with Stephanie Economou about her work on the recently released Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken.
Just this week I had the chance to speak with composer Stephanie Economou about her work on the just-released film Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken, the newest film from Dreamworks.
Originally from Long Island, New York, Stephanie received her Bachelor’s degree in Composition from the New England Conservatory of Music and Master’s in Composition for Visual Media from University of California Los Angeles. In 2015, she was chosen as one of six fellows for the Sundance Institute Composers Lab at Skywalker Ranch. Stephanie was also selected for the 2018 NBC/Universal Composers Initiative and is a 2021 BAFTA Breakthrough Artist. She is the winner of the 2022 Society for Composers and Lyricists David Raksin Award for Emerging Talent for her work on “Jupiter’s Legacy.”
Stephanie is the composer of DreamWorks’ animated feature Ruby Gillman, Teenage Kraken, Lionsgate’s About My Father, and Universal’s upcoming My Big Fat Greek Wedding 3. She has written the music for Netflix’s Jupiter’s Legacy, based on the comic series by Mark Millar, Step Up: High Water, Manhunt: Deadly Games, and the Netflix series, The Chair, created by Amanda Peet and starring Sandra Oh.
I hope you enjoy this interview!
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When were you brought in to work on the film? At what point in the process were they? And what did you think of the story?
So I got brought in about a year ago, last summer. They gave me a script to read. I had a meeting with the directors and the producer. It wasn’t super early days, but it certainly was an early part of the process. Often composers, they can pop in right in post production once there’s a good cut of the film. And then you just do your thing for a couple months. But in animation, and I find in video games as well, they like composers to be part of the process from a very early stage, which I think is useful, because you have a responsibility and a hand in shaping the narrative and the world building and all of that stuff.
I was brought in probably at the stage where they had some pretty solid animatics. And they had the general structure of everything. But, I decided to write some stuff away from picture too. While they were doing their thing, I got a theme together for Ruby. And I was exploring different stylistic worlds and things like that. So that was the benefit of coming on relatively early.
What did you think of the story when you read the script?
Oh, I absolutely loved it. I fell in love with Ruby immediately. She just jumps off the page. She’s lovable, and quirky, and awkward and smart and curious. She’s a great character. And I think she’s quite universal. We can all see something of ourselves in her, which is really fantastic. I think my biggest takeaway, the thing I was most struck by is the relationship between the three women in the film, which are Ruby, her mother, and her grandmother. The generational bond and trauma and everything that they share is really powerful and how they mend those fences is a really special part of the film.
I feel like I had a lot of inspiration after reading the script. I was inspired by the way they were describing what the underwater worlds in the kingdom and even Oceanside the town on land that they live in. And I thought, how do I make this special? How do I make this musical story for Ruby really unique? And I heard dream pop and synth pop. I started hearing those colors in my head, reverb guitars and harmonized vocals and synths.
I told them that in the meeting, and they were really excited by that because they hadn’t really heard an animation with music like that before. So I dove into that. That style of music, dream pop, really reminds me of being underwater or just being near the water. It’s very bubbly and washy and hazy. Putting [that music] up to picture when a lot of the lighting and the final animation was done, we’re like wow, this does work. It makes you feel like you’re underwater. So it was a fun, new musical stylistic thing that I got to explore.
I don’t think I’m familiar with Dream pop. Is it all synthesized?
No, not at all. It’s um, so I was listening to a lot of dream pop bands make main influence I was influences I would say are like Beach House, Slowdive, Jaguar Sun, some M83, which is like more synth pop. A lot of stream pop and synth pop spans many decades. So even starting, like in the 70s in the early 80s, like The Cure, which is not necessarily dream pop, but has a lot of those influences that will influence a lot of the genre, I was listening to some of that stuff. So a lot of guitars, bass drum kit, stacks, vocals, like retro synthesizers.
Basically dream pop and Shoegaze are like a very similar musical genre and Shoegaze got its name because on stage all the guitarists would just be staring down at their shoes. It looked like they were staring down at their shoes [while] they were looking at pedal boards. And all this other stuff that they’re running their guitars through kind of defines the genre.
So that whole direction to do synth pop and dream pop, that all came from you? Did they have any particular direction they were thinking of?
You know, that was on me. I think they responded to it right away, because they really were hoping for something very different. I think they liked the idea of what this could bring to the film. It was just something I heard in my head, and I thought it might unlock something. But I know that they weren’t looking for something very traditional, which really excited me because I was a little bit nervous about exploring the world of animation, because I hadn’t really done it too much before.
And I feel like there’s so many composers that are so brilliant at scoring animation films, and I was like, I don’t know if I have a pension for that at all. But I had their blessing to not worry about that and do what felt authentic to me and what I thought would would bring some light to the story.
How did you go into creating different themes for the main characters? And I’m thinking specifically about Ruby and Chelsea the mermaid.
Ruby’s theme was something that I wrote early on, and it seems sweet when I was starting to play in that dream pop world. It was just a tune that came to my head when I was playing around on piano. I had in mind that this theme needs to develop and evolve as Ruby comes into her own and embraces her power as a giant kraken. So I wanted a melody that was going to reflect her life as an ordinary teenager, but also be interpolated in a bigger, more orchestral superhero way. So having that in mind while I was playing around finding a theme for her, I found something that was quite lyrical. And it has these leaps in it, which can sound quite heroic depending on the lens that you tell it through. And that one stuck for Ruby. So I liked that it could work through different styles and genres of music.
And then for Chelsea, I wanted there to be a contrast obviously, because we have the kraken and the mermaid. We have Ruby, who’s a bit of a math geek, she’s a little awkward. And then we have Chelsea who is gorgeous and popular and everybody loves her. So having that contrast musically was important. And I wanted Chelsea to feel like the popular girl. I was thinking more of a Pharrell type pop, like Missy Elliott. So Chelsea’s on land popular girl theme is very poppy and peppy. It’s got lots of fun percussion. It has world instruments like didgeridoo and vocals and conch shells, which is appropriate for a mermaid being from the sea and all. And then, that develops as her character develops. And it takes a very different turn, it takes a darker turn.
There’s also a theme just for the mermaids and the folklore of the mermaids who, in a lot of these myths were the dangerous character or the sirens that led men to their deaths. They have this very sinister story to them, which obviously has changed quite a bit in the past 100 years. But I loved that the story subverts that narrative where the kraken are actually the protectors of the sea, and the mermaids are the bad ones. And there’s a lot of fun to be had with playing musically in those worlds and how we subvert those expectations.
How was it making a theme where the mermaids are the antagonists?
Yeah, it was really fun. I had a really good time. We’re writing music for the nemeses or the big bads of the story because I find that you could do so many crazy things and it’s really a good time. So you’ll hear on the soundtrack and you’ll hear when you watch the film. So the idea of having this conch shell and vocal and didgeridoo call for her theme that turns into a screamy siren call and seeing the conch shells and it just takes a dark turn and all that peppy percussion is like distorted heavy stuff, which was really fun to experiment with, like, how do I make her bad? How do we turn this on its head and it was fun to write this heavy thing for her when she goes bad.
I’ve heard that the music really changes up once the story moves underwater. What all was done to facilitate that shift because it sounds like it’s a pretty big one.
I wouldn’t say it’s a big shift. I would say that because I chose to explore the synthpop idea when Ruby’s on land, it tips a little bit more into a grounded indie pop thing. I think that makes the story feel like a John Hughes movie where it’s typical ordinary teenage life. And then when she goes underwater, I’m leaning more into the dream pop. It’s more ethereal, there’s a lot more synthesizers, it has space to be a little hazier. And it still has the guitars and the drums and the bass just like it does in the indie pop world, but it’s more spacious and a little bit more dreamy, basically. So it’s not a massive shift. But it’s because it all in my mind lives within the same relative stylistic world.
I would say there’s a shift when Ruby meets her grandmother for the first time when she arrives at the kingdom of the kraken and finds out that her grandmother is royalty. And the grandma character voiced by Jane Fonda, I wanted to give her that royal feel so there’s a lot more big symphonic orchestra with choir, and lots of brass to give her a sense of majesty, which is a huge contrast to what Ruby is like on land. She’s got this quirky teenager band vibe, and then she sees her family actually isn’t where she comes from. And I think the juxtaposition of those things is, they’re very different influences, I think, musically, but then they all come together as the film carries on.
What did you think of getting to work on the first DreamWorks film where the title characters a girl, because I’m shocked that hasn’t happened before?
You and me both. I was very surprised to hear that. Someone didn’t tell me that until we were recording at Abbey Road and someone said that while I was at an interview, and I couldn’t believe it. There’s obviously a lot of amazing animated female characters in other DreamWorks films, but I couldn’t believe she was the first titular character. When I think about that, I think it’s very overdue. However, I’m so glad that Ruby gets to be the first because I think there’s so much about her character that’s universal.
I think she struggles with her identity, I think she’s struggling in some of her relationships. She’s struggling to find her place in the world and how to define herself and what her calling is. And just to see how she rises to the occasion, but does it in her own way, on her own terms, I think is really inspiring. So she’s a powerful character, but so deeply relatable. And I think she’s a wonderful, just model for us all. And for the first female character especially.
You coming in so early in the process, when they were still in the animatics stage of the animation, did that create any difficulties as things changed as the story developed?
I mean, they definitely did make some big shifts story wise. But luckily, that was still quite early on. So I hadn’t really gotten to that part of the film that I was really trying to find my character themes, I was focusing mainly on the first reel of the film, the first 20 minutes or so because those were the most fleshed out. And then they ended up reworking some of the stuff later on. So it didn’t necessarily affect the music at that time. But as composers, we have to be very malleable because things do shift and change. And it’s just part of the process.
Sometimes you have to refocus and approach music from a slightly different perspective or try a new theme or things like that. That happens quite a bit. But I would say I don’t think any of that really happened on this even though they were having their process on their end and just shifting some story points. I was in early but I still felt like it wasn’t so early that I had done so much of the schoolwork and then they made a lot of these story shifts. So I was one step behind. And then by the time I got there, it was all locked into place.
How much music was written for the film, like in terms of minutes?
No, I mean, I think that what I love about the film is that there’s a really nice balance of [needle] drops like songs and the score. And I think they interact and intertwine in really interesting ways. I would say there’s probably about 65 to 70 minutes of score in it, and then the rest are songs. It was a hefty amount of music, for sure. And it gave me a lot of license to explore stuff.
What did you think of working on Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken compared to past projects?
This was a dream. I can’t sugarcoat it. I’m not sugarcoating it. It was such a dream, the creative team, the directors, and the producers, and DreamWorks, were just so on board with me trying something different. And they were excited by it. They were just right there with me. It was a beautiful thing to just feel encouraged and supported and pushed out of my comfort zone. And people being like, yeah, go further, it’s not always the case where you have that, not everybody can respond positively to that.
So I felt like I had a lot of support from their end, from the people making the story, which was lovely. And then I got to write music that I’m really proud of, and music that I have never written before, so I feel like I grew a lot closer. I think just the nature of the film and in animation, it can have a really bold musical identity, and it can work.
So in general terms, because I’m trying to avoid spoilers, do you have a favorite musical theme or moment in the film?
I do have a favorite musical moment. Well, okay, there are two of them. These aren’t spoiler points, but one of them is the very last score cue of the movie. And Ruby, just shows up in this beautiful dress. I won’t say anything more than that. I would say that’s the furthest that I got to take the dream pop. It was a really amazing moment to use her theme in this really big dream pop way where there’s no dialogue, there’s nothing. It’s just her in this moment.
I think it ended up turning out quite emotional, but still within the dream pop world. And then I think my other favorite spot is when Ruby chooses to go underwater for the first time and embraces becoming a giant Kraken, where I got to lean more into this mysterious synth pop, and then it becomes this big, powerful moment. So those two are the standout bits for me musically. And I hope other people respond to that.
As far as instruments go, what all was in the orchestra in the mix. You’ve mentioned a couple things, but just in general, what all was there?
Besides the band elements, the guitars, which there are a lot of guitars, there’s this specific kind of guitar that was used, which is called a rubber bridge guitar. And it has this unique muted sound. It almost sounds like a big ukulele. So that got a lot of use on this one. Vocals I mentioned there’s a whole choir, there’s a lot of strings, a lot of woodwinds, lots of a big brass section with horns and trombones and all that. And then in addition, I had some unusual instruments as well. There’s an omnichord, which is a keyboard synthetic instrument. There was the conch shells which I mentioned, the didgeridoo, ocarina and electro acoustic harp.
I found a player who like runs the harp through a bunch of effects pedals, which match the guitar effects pedals, Shoegaze feel of everything. And then there was something called the Bohemian crystal instrument, which is this crazy instrument that a friend of mine made out of glass and crystal and sheet metal that creates this deep resonance, which I use for some of the darker underwater moments. So it’s a really eclectic score, especially lcoupling it all with the orchestra. But that’s what I really love to do is unusual instrumentation with a symphonic palette as well.
Is there anything in particular you hope audiences pick up on when they sit down and watch the movie?
I just really hope it feels as rested and musically as the visuals do to me, because it’s such a vibrant film. And I hope the music is a direct complement to that. I hope it feels really immersive, because that was obviously, the world building, that was a really important thing to me. That’s what I feel like I spent the most time crafting this universe from a sonic perspective. And then I hope a lot of the synthpop stuff people can actually [like] because it’s a little unusual. And I think it truly does make it feel a little bit more grounded in Ruby’s reality as a teenager. So I just hope that, you know how it is with scores, not everybody picks up what’s happening. It just feels right. And my hope is that it feels right. And it adds a bit of dimension and immersion to the experience.
Is it that big a difference going from live action to animation.
Like process wise, it’s not, but I do feel like animation, at least working with the team that I worked with, they just really understood and respected how much music could bring to something. In live action sometimes it’s more of a complement. But I felt like in animation they understood. It’s a really big part of the storytelling, which it is in live action too. But I feel like they recognize that.
They encouraged me they’re like, “Listen, if you want we could take out some dialogue lines, if you feel like the music is telling the story, or we could change the animation to fit the music.” And that never happens in live action. They were just more open. They’re more open to what the music could bring to the story in a big way and were willing to change their process to work with me. The collaboration was very much a two way street. And that was that was new for me. So yeah, it was nice. It’s a nice change of pace.
When you recorded the music was the final film up as you recorded? Or was it still animatics in some places?
It was pretty final. There was some stuff towards the end that wasn’t the final lighting. So I got to see some of that stuff just recently in the past month or so when it all got finalized. So yeah, there’s always parts that are just not quite finished but it’s still locked and everything’s there waiting for the final lighting. So yeah, while we went to Abbey Road to record the orchestra, there were just some bits that weren’t totally polished off and done. But that doesn’t really affect too much what we’re doing on the stage.
How much time did it take to record?
So all of the soloists that I mentioned, anything that was not orchestral I recorded as I was writing the music. So over the course of six months, I was doing sessions pretty consistently with guitarists, vocalists, all these crazy instruments all over the world, basically recording remotely. That’s just part of my process. If I have an idea to do something I’m just going to work with somebody and record it and get it so that the directors can hear it, how I’m envisioning it in my head.
But for the orchestra, the strings, woods, brass choir and percussion, we did that at Abbey Road over the course of six days. It was a big dream to record for that long there. It was the best week of my life.
Is there anything else you feel like people should know about Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken?
I think just go see it and enjoy. It’s really just such an enjoyable experience. And especially seeing it in the theater, getting to appreciate all of the nuances of the visuals and the performances of the actors and the sound design and all of that. I think it comes across so beautifully in the theater. So I would just encourage people to to meet Ruby on the big screen and enjoy the experience.
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I would like to thank Stephanie Economou for taking the time to speak with me about her work on Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken.
Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken is now playing in theaters.
